World Background Maps

[3rik]

it also dosent allign in the horizontal direction... istanbul is further east than the europe/asia border river, even though scs istanbul dosent enter asia.
anyway...
so now you are saying that scs is wrong? quit this bullshit. why do you think you are right all of the sudden?
You do not set the standard. SCS sets the standard.
i dont care what is more geographically correct. this is a game and the map mods need to follow one specific standard. that standard is the SCS standard.
you think that scs just randomly drew the middle east on to the map? no. they projected it just like the rest of the map. and it isnt just the middle east. look at the comparison image again. there are differences in scandinavia, russia etc too.
this also dosent explain why you lied to me and told me that scs have never provided data on the middle east. or did you never look?

you said somewhere that you are tired of people acting like its kindergarden, yet now you are here doing exactly that. grow up.

[3rik]

"BTW, are you here to set a new record for most posts during one single night?"

if it comes to that then i guess it shows that no one has ever had to have an argument this long.
make of that what you will.

[BenganJ]

@3rik

Well, as far as I have seen from you for now, you have very exact opinions on things you don't know a shit about!
Render a map from the parameters I've given you, then you can come back and tell me I'm totally wrong. I wish
you luck on that journey, mate! I'm fully aware of the fact that not ALL maps are possible to align to, but I've done
my best!

[3rik]

what do the parameters you have given me have to do with anything? ive already proven that those paramaters are incorrect. why do you keep telling me about then?
i never asked you to allign every map. im asking you to allign with SCS map. or is that too much?
i can tell that you are being extremely stubborn and this is going no where. its 1:30 am so no one is awake anymore. im going to wait for arayas, and the rest of the roex community, and we will see what their take on this is. dont delete the messages, i have the page saved.
i started this with nothing against you, just telling you that you had made a mistake and that your map dosent allign with the scs map.
goodnight.

[Arayas]

I will not take sides here.
Cool down and be constructive. We all do mistakes, some of us may have hard times admiting them(me ). I dont know nothing about map projections and stuff but i am able to do a little experiment.
Sience Promods is hacking the game to load their own loading pictures and map background (among other things - nothing wrong here) i did a reverse hack to make the game to load SCS files, not Promods one, including background. A SCS mod.
Because i am lazy at 7.00 in the morning, the mod who contain JUST SCS ORIGINAL FILES it also contain aloooooooooot of files we dont need (over 500mb), but those are harmless.

NOTE: to be able to see the entire map i've modified the view limits, but those are NOT affecting the position of the map, just how far you can go in map view in left-right-up-down.
DO NOT REDISTRIBUTE THIS! MOD: https://sharemods.com/6ijblgqiz5g5/ETS37_FILES.zip.html

You can make your own decision on this background matter by viewing how things are using THE OFFICIAL MAP BACKGROUND when you load Promods and other maps. Place this ABOVE ALL MAPS and remove any background mod you have. This is NOT for game play, just a demonstration.
Like this one

[paokkerkir]

@3rik

Lambert Conic Conformal map projection taken from ETS2 v1.37 definition files:

Code: Select all

	map_projection: lambert_conic
	standard_paralel_1: 37
	standard_paralel_2: 65
	map_origin: (50, 15)

Generatae a map from that and then you tell me if Promods uses that!

EDIT: If you also want formulas to convert game map coordinates to LAT/LONG
on the globe, use there together with the extra parameters:

Code: Select all

latitude = map_origin[0] + (map_z - map_offset[0]) * map_factor[0]
longitude = map_origin[1] + (map_x - map_offset[1]) * map_factor[1]

map_offset: (16660.0, 4150.0)
map_factor: (-1.71570875e-4, 1.729241463e-4)

Good Luck!

This pinpoints the issue.
To clarify things.
SCS is using Bengans lambert projection in def files. In game they are using a mercator projection ui map.
In the areas that scs have now in game there is almost no difference, but if they add more areas lets say in Greece or Turkey, you will start to see differences, and they will change the UI map when they do that to reflect the projection listed in the def files. That is why Bengan's map is future proof and that is why he insists the Promods placement of middle east is wrong.

The scs ui map that now goes to middle east is by no means correct, it is just there for us to see something when we scroll further away from the game map.

But, all this thing goes technical in map projections and I cannot blame promods for wanting to be in line with the scs in game map. But when the game expands by scs, promods will have to relocate things.

[Arayas]

Can we stop with this chinese talk? Look one minute on that video!

I've loaded the SCS background, the original and un-altered background and the conclusion is simple: ME is were it supose to be. Second, Promods background and Bengan's background are both wrong. Promods has a fantasy one to cover for missplacements in UK+Island, Bengan has a bending in far East.

I think THIS does close this discution.

[MG Mike]

Hi... After all that heated discussion here and in Promods Forum as well, I have read your post paokkekir and if it is true so far, Promods is now correct with SCS what they wanted to be, but they are not correct with Bengans background..

But in the future, at latest point when SCS will reach those areas Iike the rest of Turkey or middle east they have to change from the Mercator projection to lambert conical and then at this point the problems will really start for Promods cause then they have to shift their middle east and so on..

On the other hand Promods stated in their Forum they want to go with SCS to stay compatible for every new Map DLC. But the issue will be, that SCS has no need to shift anything when they change the projection cause they are building a total new DLC. Promods on the other hand will get an earthquake cause at once SCS changes from Mercator to Lambert all promods work in middle east is wrong and they have a ton of work with shifting their map..

Do they not know this fact that SCS has this lambert projection only in the Def file for future use and in reality SCS has still this Mercator projection?

Cause shifting map parts or rescaling something (if necessary) is a hard and time taking job as I already read of.

The other question wouls be : does SCS need to change to the lambert projection anyway?
Would they expand their ETS2 with the Asian part of turkey, or a Middle East DLC or with North African areas?
Because that is no longer Europe.. And would they ever leave Europe? For now and the next years at least there is still enough to cover from Europe.

There could be a Russia DLC which make Russmap obsolet cause it is going to Moscow and maybe beyond..
They could also be a south Russia as well, there is still Ireland missing, there is still Balkan missing at least in parts..
And in Scandinavia the northern part is very empty to..

I think such things will be first from SCS as a DLC before Asian Turkey or middle east or Africa will show up as an official DLC.. So it would take some long time untill SCS needs to change from Mercator to Lambert..

And as long that is not the case, maybe....maybe... @Bengan, your work is very appreciated by me and all of us others too, I am sure.. And for me personal it is not the worst case that middle east is mediterranis (analogy to Atlantis). We lived so long with southern Region in the water.. Or Krasnodanis if you want.
But as it seems there are many users wanting the cities on land and not on the water..
How about, maybe, to change your map back to Mercator in order to line up with the current SCS Projection actually used and then you will hit middle east at the (for this moment) right spot.
But keep your lamvert projected maps also, then as soon SCS changes the view totally to Lambert you will have a correct background right before other have it..

This could be a compromise after all..

This is my personal opinion. Nothing more nothing less. It is based on what Paokkekir wrote what sounds most logical to me after all these comparisons and claims "I have the right map matching SCS" from Bengan as well as from Promods or from Erik.

So don't fight again, don't fight against Promods. They were also trying to do the best for their map as well as for other maps. (don't forget, they are not against combos, they recommend combos with Russmap, SR and so on)
And after all don't forget it is only a game and not the Centerpoint of reallife. We have so much other problems to concern of, every single of us, let us have fun with this game and not fight against each other or other map teams only because the Background map is not to 100 percent correct. The most countries are matching up and that counts most for me.

When the whole Big-map-combo-thing started in 2017/2018 we had no, absolutely no background that was going to Russia or South Russia or showed the whole black sea. And therefore there were players who played with absolutely no backgroundmap and they made it anyway..
So calm down people.. Let's find a way to come to a solution which is good for all sides.. It is still a game.

Best regards
MG Mike

[clear F1]

@Arayas, @BenganJ, @ Many friends

I'm sorry, I don't understand the difficult story. What started at the PM forum started with emotional conversations from several people.
Eventually Bengan also admits non-conformity in some parts, so please end with this.
It may be misleading because of lack of words, but in my country there is a culture that respects older people.
Please respect him unless Bengan makes a big mistake. Bengan also hopes he can continue his path.

The two are old people.

[Arayas]

We respect and love Bengan. No doubt there. This is not an attack on anybody. First step to make things right is to identify the problems. In a way, there is no conflict in this matter because both parts are having it wrong.