Compatibility between YKSRSK and Southern Region in the future.

PerrydPelle
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Re: Compatibility between YKSRSK and Southern Region in the future.

Post by PerrydPelle » August 14th, 2019, 11:58 pm

Definitely a lot worse, but the situation is still not ideal now
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Arayas
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Re: Compatibility between YKSRSK and Southern Region in the future.

Post by Arayas » August 15th, 2019, 12:10 am

...and you have this conclusion showing a custom edited background? :lol:
Let me understand, this background became the absolut standard in map alignament?
I apreciate the work, great background, but...let me go out of further discution about this subject.
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ExtremorPL
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Re: Compatibility between YKSRSK and Southern Region in the future.

Post by ExtremorPL » August 15th, 2019, 1:18 am

It's a background made with the newest map projection from SCS. You can create something like that yourself for map editor, with the same results (or similar). Maybe on your own background you would do, with newest map projection it wouldn't match perfectly but misplacement wouldn't be that big. I hope SCS will expand their background a bit to eastern Turkey so problems with it would be gone. I don't mean Bengan's background is pefect but I wanted to show you, your map is using old map projection and probably needs moving a bit, like any other bigger map (including promods). We are planning a map with road connection via Iran to YKSRSK and road connection with The Great Steppe so my map is also in it. Let's just wait for release of the new DLC and we'll see what's next. I don't wanna fight, just discuss and get rid of problems with map parts misplacements. I also need to move my map (again),anyway with my old background I had problems with The Great Steppe. 09_KZ (author of The Great Steppe) said, he can move his map and it's not a big deal for him if it's needed, he just need proper editor background. We all need.
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BenganJ
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Re: Compatibility between YKSRSK and Southern Region in the future.

Post by BenganJ » August 15th, 2019, 3:26 am

Just for the record. Here's a picture where I have inserted the SCS original
map view background image as an overlay to my own satellite background
mod. I'm talking about /material/ui/map/map.dds!

Click on image to enlarge!
Comp_SCS_BJ_BG_MAP.JPG
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Arayas
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Re: Compatibility between YKSRSK and Southern Region in the future.

Post by Arayas » August 15th, 2019, 12:11 pm

I'm sure its perfect and i know the work behind it.
Is not a fight, don't worry. We talk.

Now let's talk about official sources.

SCS didnt changed the editor background with new advanced one. They did just like me just a patch to fix the 3 sectors missing areas in northern Romania and Ukraine.
More then half of Turkey is also is present in this SCS background. They use this as pattern for their vanilla map. This editor background is aligned with game background because that is normal, to see in game the same cities layout like in editor.

Unlike other maps i have the privilege to use this oficial background for my work. ROEX fits this background. YKSRSK also fits this background (the deliberate shifting for some cities is small, not very far from their actual position).
Now...the eastern YKSRSK.
the missing part of the eastern YKSRSK is missing in SCS background. So i changed the resolution of the editor background and added piece by piece missing parts. Every new piece added was overlaped on the previous one to make sure (using transparency for this step) the new one has a natural fit with the previous one.I'm sure it was an ok alignament.

Now you are telling me, "if you did your map on older SCS editor background now is missplaced" False. The "older" background is still there. SCS alignament is the standard to follow in this matter and i just did that.

Any other modifications by people who are not SCS is open for doubt. Promods changed both game and editor backgrounds because of Island, Should i take that to the bank? No. They have create something to fit on some level the actual position of Island.
The same thing with PMME. The key words "on some level".

You are doing it wrong. Bengan did this with Elmer background also in the past. He told me: you need to adjust your zoom because is not aligned with Elmer's background. Wrong, i told him: the zoom is aligned with vanilla map, maybe Elmer's background is not that acurate.

So you are doing it again here: we have a self maded background and we decided your work is missplaced. So, SCS alignament is not something to rely on, our background makes the rules now. For me, with all respect, it doesnt.

You added a picture(SCS) in to a big picture(yours). Your big picture scale may be 95% scale of the small picture. Or 110%. Result: shifting, even bigger in far areas.
You have projection (bending) on your picture. Can it be 10% too bended? Or 10 % under? The only guy who can do this is the guy from SCS who knows all the parameters and use the same tools. The rest is there, but not there yet.

I understand the problems of editors who are working in "black" areas. They dont have a background pattern. They need to add to the SCS editor background piece by piece small squares of maps until they are covering their interest areas.
Adding big chunks(or one) in the map is best way to go away from the alignament.
Look at older SCS editor background: they had 3 blank sectors in Romania from Cluj to Ukraine. There was just white there. I tried to add that part in one piece.
Didnt work. Looks great in west, way shifted in east. I tried 2 pieces, same result, a little better. I added 6-8 parts until the job was doned 90%. Sience it was a small part, i accepted that.

Look at SCS editor background now: they did the same thing like i did last year and also using multiple overlaping to have a corect placement. And remember: they have all the parameters and still they didnt do it from one piece.
I'm sure Istanbul from DLC will be positioned where Istanbul is NOW on editor background. Where YKSRSK Istanbul is.

You maded a wooden Mercedes AMG, who looks nice and contain alot of work, and now you are knoking on Mercedes factory gate: dude, this is how AMG should look, you need to change your manufacturing processes. You know the answer to this.


Your AMG is good for a ride (game use) not to judge how Mercedes makes cars.
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BenganJ
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Re: Compatibility between YKSRSK and Southern Region in the future.

Post by BenganJ » August 15th, 2019, 12:30 pm

Short answer. You're right in most of what you say. Sadly SCS hasn't updated and
enlarged their Map Editor background, that's correct. But are you saying that the
SCS map view BG doesn't fit damn good to my SAT BG? The thing is Arayas, that
I have used the parameters specified by SCS and used by SCS to generate the map
projection Lambert Conic Conformal, the one specified by SCS. You have definitely
not done anything wrong with YKSRSK, on the contrary and my opinion is, that the
Road to Asia group should make their maps first, then connect to whatever map
they want as the situation stands today. IF someone then do some rework or
re-scaling, that is pure bonus. Nöff said!
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Re: Compatibility between YKSRSK and Southern Region in the future.

Post by ExtremorPL » August 15th, 2019, 12:36 pm

But it still not fixes my problem. When my background matches YKSRSK, it doesn't match The Great Steppe and when my background matches The Great Steppe, it doesn't match YKSRSK... :?
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Arayas
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Re: Compatibility between YKSRSK and Southern Region in the future.

Post by Arayas » August 15th, 2019, 1:16 pm

Great Steppe is not built in SCS area. Who can be sure is in corect position? In fact all maps who are outside SCS boundaries will not fit 100% the real placement.
Bengan, i didnt follow the work on your background and i asume you did things right, but let me judge my work on oficial background because i can do that in my case.
About editing YKSRSK bonus, is not gonna hapened, i am the only person who decide that.
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BenganJ
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Re: Compatibility between YKSRSK and Southern Region in the future.

Post by BenganJ » August 15th, 2019, 2:01 pm

@Arayas

All you said there I second!

@ExtremorPL

When creating your map, don't bother with where other maps are located.
That problem you take care of when your map is "finished", when it's time
to connect it to the "world". Either your map will be located outside what
SCS thinks is the "world" or maybe someone else have an opinion on the
position of the "world". Make your map, otherwise there will be nothing
done.
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Re: Compatibility between YKSRSK and Southern Region in the future.

Post by ExtremorPL » August 15th, 2019, 2:23 pm

@BenganJ

Okay, we'll focus on a closer part of Iran (to Turkmenistan) then and for now only ferry connection will stay.
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